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Debat Soalan

Rawak soalan #2: If cells are the beginning stages of life, how are fetus' not "alive" while they are growing?

Just curious, be prepared for my responses as well as questions.
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anda say; "be prepared for my responses as well as questions" but personally, anda seem like you're not prepared for some of our jawapan at all.
Chaann94 posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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How so?
tiagih posted hampir setahun yang lalu
 tiagih posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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Debat Jawapan

whiteflame55 said:
Alright, let's get biological.

So what's the difference between a zygote and a fetus? What's the difference between a fetus and an infant? It's all about differentiation of tissues. A zygote is an infinitely differentiable cell, capable of splitting and multiplying many times and changing into other tissue types. A fetus is a collection of many different cells, far lebih differentiated than a zygote, and yet still highly modifiable. sejak the time a fetus becomes an infant, all of those cells have become "final" tissues, essentially reaching their conclusion states.

Yes, this is a highly sterile way of saying it, but I think we need this to alih ke hadapan on a soalan like this.

This process didn't start at the zygote stage. It didn't even start when the original sperm and ovum were made. It started when the cells in the bodies of the two adults who made those gametes possible began producing gametes. Those gamete-producing cells were stem cells as well, much like those in a fetus, except less differentiable.

Why bring this all up? The point is that it's infinitely regressive. If we're going to regard a zygote as a living being, why not regard the sperm and ovum that created it in the same light? How about the stem cells that created those gametes? Why won't they be regarded in the same way?

The answer is simple: everyone, both people who are pro-life and pro-choice, takes an arbitrary position on when they feel life begins. We may not base that on any scientific reasoning - many people base that on emotional concerns. But in the end, at one stage atau another, we all support the life of the child.

Pro-choice people like myself set that arbitrary point in a number of places, but mine is set squarely on viability outside the womb. As scientific advances get better and better, that point will get earlier. Even then, however, there's a certain chance the child wont survive outside the womb. I support a certain potential for life.

Pro-life individuals often support life at a variety of stages as well, but if we talk only about those who select zygote as their cutoff point, the chance that the child will be born alive goes down tremendously. We may have fewer miscarriages these days, but there are still quite a few Bayi that don't make it to term.

Any way anda look at it, a person supports a certain percentage chance of the child being born. There is a certain likelihood for each sperm to reach an egg. It may be relatively low sejak comparison, but the chance still exists. sejak not taking it into account (as most reasonable people don't) we are all being arbitrary to some extent.
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posted hampir setahun yang lalu 
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so your point is that if, fetus' are alive then why isn't extended to the other cells that were involved.
tiagih posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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No. My point is that, if we look at this from a purely scientific standpoint, that all our choices on when life begins are technically flawed. I'm simply trying to explain why neither pro-life nor pro-choice groups can claim the scientific high ground.
whiteflame55 posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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Well, to be honest, it's this position thatl eads me to be pro-choice. Uncertainty about the life of the child and, therefore, whether it's really being "killed" in the strictest sense leads me to prefer the life of the mother, and I think many of the restrictions pro-life groups suppport would put many mothers at risk in a number of ways. It's also a reason for me to always take extreme care in my life to make sure that my wife never has to get an abortion.
whiteflame55 posted hampir setahun yang lalu
wantadog said:
jalang, perempuan jalang please! That sperm worked hard! It raced harder than Mario Kart! It not only deserves recognition as "Alive" but also a friggin medal.

Allow me to say...well done, sperm, anda slimy sticky bastard.


To answer your question. Fetus' are alive. they are a living thing created through sexual intercourse, otherwise known as "bow chika bow wow" Anyone who says that they are not alive shall earn the tajuk of baby murderer from me....no, I'm serious...that will be their new nickname.
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posted hampir setahun yang lalu 
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LOL I think your komen kinda scared her XD.
Chaann94 posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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LOL anda have a point wantadog, it is a hard and perilous race to the famale's egg, but is it a consious race? the sperm is a cell, like a blood cell, no one knows when the thing inside the womb realisez he atau she is a living being, it coulld begin a little outside the womb atau inside after some moths, atau heck from the very begining as anda said! and i don't think the baby being viable is a good reason to kill it if it's alive conciously
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
Dragonclaws said:
The same way the skin on your hand isn't "alive". Technically, there's life, but it has no personhood. There's no mind in there, just animated tissue. If anda were to cut your hand and kill the cells, it's no big loss. New tissue will grow to replace it, and the only harm is to you, because anda are the mind with ownership of the hand. What "alive" refers to in this context is a functioning person, which only works with the brain.
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posted hampir setahun yang lalu 
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the skin on your hand doesn't continuous growth, a zygote is growing so i would assume something is coming forth. The skin on your hand has a point where it stops growing and falls off, I don't think its a good comparison to a growing zygote with its own DNA
tiagih posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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I don't think there's any point in judging destruction of cells based on what the cells could grow into in the future because as they sit now, the cells have no brain attached. I don't think anda really care about DNA so much as the personhood aspect. There's a species of cicak, biawak with no males and all the lizards reproduce clonally, making exact copies of the parent lizard. If humans reproduced in this way, I don't think you'd be accepting of abortion then. Am I wrong?
Dragonclaws posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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the viability of somehting to me is not a good reason to kill it, there are adults who are handicaped and barely viable, we don't kill them we give them a chance because we believe that it's murder
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
Chaann94 said:
Just like a blank piece of paper is the beginning of my homework. But it needs to be worked on before I can call it my homework.
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posted hampir setahun yang lalu 
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I don't understand
tiagih posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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^ that must be like the best komen ever (lvl of sarcasm; over 9000)
Chaann94 posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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i don't understand your analogy its weird could anda try again in explaining your point
tiagih posted hampir setahun yang lalu
HeitsiTsegin said:
I know that my biology teacher says taht cells are the basic units of life, and that strep throat is made of cells, theirfore Strep is a living thing too.

Fight for Strep throat bacteria rights!
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 I know that my biology teacher says taht cells are the basic units of life, and that strep throat is made of cells, theirfore Strep is a living thing too. Fight for Strep throat bacteria rights!
posted hampir setahun yang lalu 
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LOL
tiagih posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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LOL
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
coriann said:
the majority of people to me are pro choice, i have not made my decision yet on what i believe but their argument is that life...conscious life begins, outside, the womb some of them, and some of them do not claim to know this but base the babies' value on their viability atau how capable the parent is to grow the child, atau whether the parent is satisfied sejak the fact that they have a child at all.
a lot of people are also pro-life, and they believe that life begins sometime before the child leaves the womb
some believe it is during the 8th bulan period
some during the seventh
the sixth
the fifth
fourth
third
some people believe it is alive at stage zero
and some will go further to say that the mare fact that the child has the potential of becoming a human being is valuable, and killing it would be murder because what is in the womb is still our kind and at the very other end of the rope are people who believe that the child has a pre-destined future that will be ruined if the child is killed, atau that the child could be of some benefit to society that will be Lost if we don't wait and see what the child becomes atau can become.
the pro-choicer's claim about life starting after the womb is based solely on belief
the pro-lifer's claim about the baby being alive inside the womb is based somewhat on faith as well
so to answer anda soalan basically.....nobody knows, we can only guess and make our choices based on the best rationalization that we can make, atau we can make our choices based on our faith in God.
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