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Debat Soalan

what do anda think about this scenario?

okay, there's a guy, he owns a couple of restaurants. recently, he was accused of saying that he did not agree with gay marriages, some people then stopped going to his restaurants and the mayor of a town even stopped him form building his restaurants there.
does this violate the freedom of speech?
most people say anda r entitled to your own opinion. This man did not say that he hated gays and that he wanted to crush them all and grind their Bones to make his bread. i mean don't anda think people should sort of just let him have his opinion? what if someone anda knew did not agree with gay relationships (not that they were mean to them atau anything), how would anda react?
well, personally most people around me are not so okay with homosexual relationships, anyways, what do anda think?
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i just want to point out that i don't think anyone should be hated atau treated with scorn, i know that feeling all too well, im talking about what people personally believe deep inside of them, should people really have to keep how they feel a secret just because of how the public veiws it?
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
 coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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Debat Jawapan

bri-marie said:
He's entitled to his opinion. And those who disagree with his opinion, are lebih than entitled to not partake in his services.

'Freedom' goes both ways. Cathy is allowed his freedom of speech. But that freedom of speech also means that people are allowed to argue against what Cathy is saying.

I know a lot of people who aren't okay with gay marriages. They know my stance on the issue, and I know theirs. Depending on the person, we either have a calm, rational discussion about it, atau it's a topic we cannot discuss because neither one of us can stay calm.

I, personally, never understood the whole "I don't hate gays" side of this. The LGBTQ community's rights are being oppressed because a specific group of people don't care for their lifestyle, that doesn't even effect that specific group. That's not something people do to people they "don't care" about atau "have no problem with." Actions speak louder than words.

/end rant.
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posted hampir setahun yang lalu 
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yes i know some people can give gays a hard time, it's happened to me too and i Lost a friend because of it, and when anda were talking about the "i don't hate gays" thing, anda could look at it from a religious standpoint, say for example anda believe a man should be with a man and a woman with a woman because it's in your book, holy book the bible, atau whatever other such book, but anda don't "hate" necessarily the people who don't live according to your lifestyle, like, hmm, i think hamburgers are healthy and anda think they are fattening and cause hati, tengah-tengah disease, but we still come to a common agreement, how is that for an explanation?
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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*shouldn't*
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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oh, i see, okay that i don't agree with, LOL i didn't know that
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
lumforever said:
I don't think that's right at all. If his restaurant is in America and he lives there then has freedom of speech. Every American is untitled to their own opinion and can say what ever they want.

I think that man should have dozens of restaurants wherever he wants ~
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posted hampir setahun yang lalu 
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hmmm...good point :)
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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No one is arresting him for stating his opinion. Others are exercising their free speech to disagree with him, so what's wrong with that?
Cinders posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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Patronage is the strongest version of speech that the consumer has. We cannot influence much in the business world, but we can put our money where our mouth is and choose which businesses we patronize. If the CEO is allowed his freedom of speech, then so are his patrons.
Cinders posted hampir setahun yang lalu
tiagih said:
1does this violate the freedom of speech?
The store owners?, well yes it does. People have the freedom of speech and expression (given that they are in America) so I think yes he right of speech was violated. People have a right to object a person's beliefs but to say they can't build a restaurant there because of it I think is wrong.

2.what if someone anda knew did not agree with gay relationships (not that they were mean to them atau anything), how would anda react?

I don't personally support gay marriage but even if I did, I would really not care if someone supports atau doesn't support it because people do have that right to object. If I knew someone personally who did atau didn't I would try and get an understanding of their viewpoint.

I think to be honest it is hard to have an opinion on anything because even if we say we can be tolerant atau open minded about things, if someone opposes that believe we think they are being close minded atau even hateful. But I am sure things will work out for the best


does this answer your question
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posted hampir setahun yang lalu 
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yes thankyou very much tiagih
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
whiteflame55 said:
There's no doubt that the store owner is entitled to his opinion, and can actively state it in a public forum. There's also no doubt that any response he receives, as long as it doesn't threaten his person, is just as allowable.

anda make the situation sound quite a bit worse than it actually is (we are, after all, talking about a very large chain that exists in a tremendous amount of locations, not one that would disappear from being removed), but no matter the situation, a city can set standards that do not allow certain companies to be open there. In fact, many do. There are many dry counties out there where no alcoholic beverages are allowed at all. We have local, state and federal laws that tell companies that certain practices are not allowed, and that they must hold to certain moral standards.

I don't think it's necessarily right. I think the idea of banning a company from a city, country, state, etc. simply because their CEO has an opinion anda disagree with is a bit flippant. I'm pro-gay marriage, but I think the uproar surrounding this particular is excessive. Nonetheless, the mayor and his constituents are also expressing their freedom of speech, even if it's through action, just as much as the CEO.
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posted hampir setahun yang lalu 
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thanks for your answer whiteflame, there are a couple of things i'd like to point out though, which is that, the managers of companies and stuff usually remove resturants and stuff because of the quality of the resturant itself and not because of personal reasons, and this is what i consider a personal reason
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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That's one of the usual reasons - quality is a standard that all restaurants are held to. However, it's not the only standard companies are held to. Recall the outrage that people showed against Wallmart when we found out how they treated their employees. They did nothing illegal, they held to correct standards, even if they skirted the line of what was reasonable. My point is that simply meeting standards is not the only gauge sejak which we judge companies, and they're certainly not the only reason for a response. The CEO reflects the policies of the company as a whole, as do his views.
whiteflame55 posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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LOL
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
Cinders said:
I just telah diposkan this in response to link but I wanted to answer here, too, despite my strong agreement with bri-marie (and the realization that I will be repeating her a little).

If anda want to criticize the left for boycotting corporations that support stances they don't believe in, anda can't go and pick up your pen and clipboard and ask people not to kedai at JC Penney because they hired and endorse Ellen Degeneres, atau Starbucks because of their public support for gay marriage. Even though this is exactly what's happening sejak many conservatives - who, sejak the way, also boycotted TLC in response to their reality show, American Muslim. Yet another instance of one side (in this case, the right) calling the kettle black - though both sides do it.

People - even heads of corporations - are allowed to state their opinion, political, moral atau otherwise. They can even make their opinion the official opinion atau stance of their corporation. However, whether that's a wise business decision atau not is debatable, because people also have the right not to support atau endorse corporations that offend them.

The reason people don't "picket" the president - atau any other politician for that matter - is because it is their job to deal with these issues and Debat them. They take a stance on such issues for political purposes, and their positions are scrutinized, criticized, and debated sejak the public. But that's their job. It's not a corporation's job to enter into the political Debat on either side in my opinion, but if they do, they have to be prepared to face the consequences of such an action, which is exactly what Chick-Fil-A is doing now, and what JCP did six months ago.

EDIT: The mayor, you'll note, is not a CEO. He is a political public figure. As stated - it's his job to take stances, even controversial stances - on political issues because he is a politician. anda can disagree with him. Don't visit his town. But he was just doing his job in response to someone who stepped outside of their own job huraian to enter into the public square.

As they say, if anda can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
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posted hampir setahun yang lalu 
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i understand what anda r trying to say, the restaurant owner should have know what he was getting himself into, he should have known that a lot of the public would react negatively to the decision true, i think the mayor was a little harsh though don't you?
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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*known*
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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Like I said, the mayor was taking a political stance. Controvertial, perhaps. But that's his JOB. He's probably trying to get undian as much as make a stand. Of course he'll be alienating conservative voters, but as a liberal mayor (which I assume he is), he was doing that anyway, so he might as well win lebih points with the left. His was a calculated political move. The CEO's was a business move. Because keep in mind that everything a CEO does publicly and associates withi his company IS a business move. And in my opinion, any political alih made sejak any CEO, whether it's in support of the right atau the left, is a bad business move, because you're sure to alienate half your consumer base, even as anda impress the other half. It's just bad business, is all I'm saying.
Cinders posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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true, very true
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
CD-1 said:
I think that the store owner has his own opinion and is not wrong about anything he said. He did not act like hitler and try to kill them all he simply berkata he does not agree with gay marriage. Personally I agree with him but if people are gay atau lesbian I'm not going to run up to them and say something that's really mean atau nasty instead I would just leave them alone. And the store owner does have freedom of speech and can say what he wants to say because it's the first amendment in the constitution. Technically the mayor is violating the first amendment sejak taking away his privilege of making restaurants. He should file a court case and get a good lawyer and get his privilege back and sue for all the discrimination against him and throw in emotional distress.
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posted hampir setahun yang lalu 
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Btw do anda think I can Debat well atau should give up my dream of being a lawyer
CD-1 posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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LOL no CD anda should never give up on your dream, actually, uou sort of persuaded me a little with that one so anda did a good job, you've got some interesting points, personally...i disagree with the mayor, i think he was a little harsh, i know the guy was paying for gay marriage not to become the law which i don't agree with, but,gay marriage is a big controversy so there are going to be so many people on different sides of the fence, however on defense of the mayor, the restaurant guy was sort of looking for it when he decided to be openly unsupportive of gayness :P no one likes discrimination but he should have expected it, plus he is sort of being discriminating sejak paying for gay marriage not to be the law if that's what i heard correctly from bri
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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ha ha wow! must be bigger than your answer hope anda like :P
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
Chaann94 said:
I think it was hypocritical of the people to stop going to his restaurants.

Some say the actions around Chick-Fill-A(protesting, not going there anymore) were morally correct.

But if it was the other way around, (someone saying he agreed with gay marriage), there would be some major riots.


So yeah, I do think this is a violation of freedom of speech. I support gay rights and gay marriage, but I still think people have the right to be against it.

Now if the owner had banned gays from entering his restaurant then it would be different. But he just berkata he didn't agree with someone.
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posted hampir setahun yang lalu 
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The owner did use profits from his business to support anti-gay organiations, so I understand people not wanting their money to go towards that and thus not going to those restaurants anymore. People have the right to be against gay marriage, but people also have the right to not eat at those restaurants
Sappp posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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But, again, doesn't freedom go both ways? He has the right to say he's against gay marriage. I have the right to disagree (verbally) with that. He has the right to host a big to-do over it. I have a right to not go to that to-do. He has the right to run his business. I have a right to chose where I spend my money and not eat there. Freedom is a two-way street. And it's not hypocritical to dive in the other lane.
bri-marie posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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^ ^ oh cool i Cinta it when people agree with me <3
coriann posted hampir setahun yang lalu
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