Dollhouse Dollhousey Talkage

amazondebs posted on Feb 28, 2009 at 01:29AM
basically a forum to talk about the latest episode or any about dollhouse, rant as much as you like and babble (or sing out) all your theories

however it is a SPOILER FREE zone that means if you know something that hasn't happened yet keep it stum however if you haven't caught up to the latest episode then i suggest you stay away
last edited on Feb 28, 2009 at 01:38AM

Dollhouse 27 balas

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hampir setahun yang lalu amazondebs said…
soooo i thought my kicking it off my talking about paul and boyd

now boyd to me is so far the most interesting character, yes i realise there is a lot of boyd love going around and i am not very original in thought however he's the only character i havn't come up with theories about yet. I mean at first i presumed that boyd came to the dollhouse simply looking for work and over the years has come to recent it and yet we find out in the episode the target that he's actually only been there for three months and he clearly didn't agree morally with what they were doing from the start so now i am super curious about his past and why he took the job

secondly on to paul......i dunno why but so far the most interesting thing was watching him box topless and you know i'm all for a nice a bit of eye candy and everything but he's just so blah so far I have very little interest with his arc of the story but i understand he's going to be a large role in the main arc so i really hope he picks up
hampir setahun yang lalu fanfly said…
I agree, debs- I wonder why Boyd took the job too and so far he's my fav character. And I also agree that Paul isn't that interesting but I know why I don't find him interesting. He's not interacting with the other main characters- who play off each other and develop together. He's off by himself and he has few people to interact with in order to develop his character. That's why I was excited to see Mellie- I'm hoping she gives him someone to talk to, interact with and make him more interesting. But he needs to form some kind of connection to one of the other main characters in order to feel "involved" in the story you know what I mean? As of now, he's off to the side and what he does doesn't really affect any of the other characters. Until it does he's just going to be kind of blah.
And yes, I saw Stage Fright and I'm dying to talk about it but I'll wait until I'm sure you've seen it before I say anything. I hate spoilers too!
Gotta go to bed now!
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hampir setahun yang lalu amazondebs said…
surprise
ha ha ha hey like i said in the initial post it's the readers job to make sure they have caught up with the latest episode before posting here, i hate spoilers too but i expect people to have a little common sense (well whedon fans anyways....maybe if we was on twilight...ooooo cheap shot, sorry) anyways yes i have seen stage fright now, the lovly gorgeous ineedcoffee put up a megavid link :D

and wow wow wow this just keeps getting better and better i am also in love with victor/luvbov his character is just sooo i dunno do you think luvbov really felt for paul or he was setting him up or did the dollhouse just program that in (obviously they have something to do with it) also i know he's had the accent from the begining but i have to say i love it, although not quite sure weather it's russia or polish....i think it sounds more polish to me sort of how my counsin talks (he is actually polish he doesn't just randomly talk with a accent lol)

anyways i'm still not convinced that dichen will turn out to be a good actor, the memories of the neighbours clip still make me cringe and in stage fright she wasn't any better lol but i am loving the relationship between sierra and echo very interesting especially the shake of the head at the end when she noticed Dominic watching them. Also wondering if what happened to the other sierra is relevant, if there's a story there

loved the crazy guy...beginning to see a pattern here with the crazy theme and the dollhouse seems to attracts those who want to hunt and kill young girls lol

one other side point has anyone else noticed that echo has played a similar character three times now, this sort of very active, very down to earth, very tough sporty girl and yet a ordinary girl, once with matt at the begining of ghost and then of course with richard in target and now jordan in stage fright wondering if they keep picking her for these bits because it's very close to how caroline is?

oh oh oh and ooooo what's "the attic"

anyways to sum up my ramble (hey i did warn you this forum was for rambling) stage fright=awesome
hampir setahun yang lalu fanfly said…
Well, if this was the Twilight Spot there wouldn't be any real spoilers to worry about because there's no real story there- oops! cheap shot! ;DD

Anyway, I too think each episodes has gotten better than the one before. And Lubov/Viktor's accent is definitely sexy. I really doubt he felt anything for Paul because he's been programmed to be some kind of mob lackey and Paul was pretty mean to him. So no, I don't think he was conflicted about setting Paul up at all. But the question is, why was he programmed to be a mob lackey in the first place? It's not like they could have known that Paul would pick him to pressure for info. I think the Dollhouse might have it's fingers in a lot of pies- spies everywhere.

And by Dichen- did you mean the actress that plays Mellie? Because her name's Miracle Laurie. Dichen Lachman plays Sierra. But although Mellie obviously has a crush on Paul and is kind of needy, I still think she could be an interesting character. I'm almost sure now that she's a doll.

Echo and Sierra- I'm loving it. Echo already seems like a protective older sister to her. The way she signaled at the end not to come over because Sierra's handler was watching? Not only sweet but very interesting. It indicates that she knows that that guy doesn't want her and Sierra to bond. Now how would she know that? Also, it indicates deception- something that I'm sure Topher would say the dolls are incapable of. When a child learns how to lie, it's an indication of their intelligence and development.

And yeah, Echo's "characters" do seem to have a similarity, but I don't know if that's Caroline's personality. I don't think so. Because each time she's been programmed to the specifications of the client. Maybe she's chosen for those engagements because she has those personality traits naturally? But then that negates the whole program. If they thought she retained any of her original personality I think they'd be alarmed.

And I concur- ooooooh what's the attic?!?
hampir setahun yang lalu Asvini said…
heart
I loved stage fright too. Eliza has a nice voice.
I love Lubov/Viktor, I've been waiting and hoping they'd reveal he's a doll. I have to say though, I think if I see him on a mission as anyone but Lubov I'll probably miss the accent, lol.

I can't deny I've had some doubts about Dichen after reading more than one review of the original pilot that said she didn't act as well as the rest of the cast, but to be fair she hasn't had too much real acting to do yet, so I'm trying to hold off judging her till she's given a little more to do.

I loved Echo shaking her head at Sierra. She's already progressed a little from the cheery trusting character she was when we started. Such a little gesture but it shows that she has already realised the Dollhouse isn't just this happy safe place, noticing that one of the employees was watching her in a not so friendly way and also figuring out what it was he was looking out for and avoiding it. That's way above what I think you could expect from the average doll.

Since I'm an out of control spoiler addict I actually already have a vague idea what the attic is. Curse my suspense ruining spoiler addiction.

I also loved the conversation between Boyd and Dr. Claire about Echo being the best active "She wasn't always"
I like the idea that she may be following in Alpha's footsteps.

So as my overuse of the word love may have given away, I thought this episode was better than a basket full of kittens :)
hampir setahun yang lalu amazondebs said…
yes eliza surprised me, only ever heard her sing kareoke( i spend way too much time on youtube lol)

just make myself clear i like lubov's accent because i think it's good and realistic but i don't find it sexy on account of half of my family speaking pretty much identical to him and you know when you start finding you relatives accents sexy....or your relatives anything sexy you should worry lol i'm allowed to say spikes accent sexy because i'm from yorkshire not london in the 80s ;)

ahem anyways swiftly moving on before i get really side tracked what i meant was he seemed to be pretty nice to paul at that party where ever that was and if he's just a lacky to those people then who knows he might not have known about a set up.....or maybe i just like his character i don't want him to be scummy lol although i guess it's not so bad cause i don't care about paul lol
well my theory on why he is programmed as that is that he needs to have a plausible story as to why he would have any info on the dollhouse, perhaps paul got an "anomalous" tip off him or perhaps there's some corruption up at FBI, it's even very remotely possible when the dollhouse found out what he was investigating (simple bit of hacking for topher :D) they decided no one would miss lubov for a bit and kept him himself but programmed so they could control him ......yeah i realise that's a long shot but you know we can't all be whedon geniuses lol

no by dichen...i meant dichen aka sierra, she was on the soap neighbours before and from the bits i have seen she was a bad actress and in dollhouse she doesn't seem too great although yeah your right asvini she hasn't done much yet but i found her character in stage fright comical even when she was kidnapped.
I am interested in the sierra/echo interaction. Although from your response firefly i'm guessing you don't think miracle (seriously who names their kid that) so far is a good actress if you assumed i meant her lol but anyways why are you so sure she's a doll....i must be missing clues lol sorry i say lol way too much

yes what I'm wondering is how will echo effect sierra i mean would some kind of bond bring about sierra remembering, (is that what happened with alpha and echo, a bond?) she obeyed echo when she shook her head....would someone with no real memory do that? like a child needing to disciplined to show them not to disobey? or maybe it's just inactive dolls are so blank and moldable she just goes along with anything but i'm sure she looked a bit upset, she trusted Jordan and i wonder what she wanted to approach her for at the end of stage fright?

yeah what i meant was it's closer to her natural personality and that's why they chose her, maybe being a bit geeky is more natural to sierra's personality i'm sorting working from the theory willow give us in "replacement" in buffy where she talks of to undo a spell is much simpler because things always want to return to their natural state? It could just be physically and aesthetically echo fits them parts

hmmm the attic (tut tut asvini lol makes me want to go google it now i know the spoilers are out ther but i shall reframe)
.....secret code for killing them? i mean this goes back to a pick someone made on what they do once a doll is done? do they get locked away and store? maybe alpha escaped from the attic ohhhh i am soooo pleased a new joss show is on air, love the buffy spot and everything but it's not the same as talking about it while it's happening :D

yup defo kittyfantastico
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hampir setahun yang lalu amazondebs said…
oh and another little bit i picked up on (sorry i never shut up i know feel free to scan my comments most of them consist of mainly lol and "i have a thoery" anyway) is sierra saying she was dizzy, not only does this dolls have more than a childlike understanding of some things but also how hard they are worked and yet they seem to do so voluntarily, very clever
hampir setahun yang lalu fanfly said…
I think Lubov was nice to Paul at that party because he was fishing for info. He was trying to find out how much Paul knew about the Dollhouse. And him setting Paul up doesn't make him scummy because I'm sure he was programmed to do it. So it's not like he had a choice.
Oh and I just assumed you were talking about Miracle because you'd said the "memory of the neighbors clip" made you cringe- what does that mean? Thought you were talking about Mellie.
And I thought Dichen did ok- I bought her fear during the kidnapping. I think she just has an awkwardly shaped face that's frankly somewhat comical. So every expression on her looks...well, comical! Mostly, I like her for how she relates to Echo. And yeah, I think she's pretty used to following orders. But I also think she trusts Echo and looks up to her. So that's why she obeyed her signal without question.
hampir setahun yang lalu amazondebs said…
hmm yeah good point, well it makes the type of character that lubov is scummy even though it's not his fault it's still....oh i dunno part of his personality

when i said neighbours i didn't mean neighbour as in paul's neighbour i meant neighbours as in the australian soap that dichen used to be in :)

but if she trusts echo and looks up to her then surly she is more than a normal doll too as dolls are literally blank slates, yeah?
hampir setahun yang lalu fanfly said…
Well, I think I see what you're saying- Lubov is scummy but that's not Viktor's real personality. Lubov is essentially a fabrication, that personality isn't real- it's just a tool of the Dollhouse.

Oh! I hadn't ever heard of the show so I had no idea! lol I've never heard of Dichen before this show.

Well I think dolls are a little bit more than blank- more like very young children. But I think maybe Echo's influencing her, drawing out something that maybe wouldn't surface otherwise in a normal doll?
hampir setahun yang lalu amazondebs said…
smile
well i guess it depends weather you see victor and lubov as two different characters (which i do) and even though he's a fabrication by the dollhouse he's still a character sort of like dawn and the monks i guess. It brings up that whole interesting and yet mind boggling thing of is anyone really responsible for what they do as they do that due to their personality which is just they way they are through DNA, their parents and enviroment

yes dichen was well....terrible in it
link
it's sort of like well...just a cheesey soap i guess

hmm yeah i think so, i wonder exactly what is imprinted in to the dolls when they are inactive, i mean they all still have different personalities....they fall asleep differently....i notice weird things
hampir setahun yang lalu fanfly said…
Yeah, I guess Lubov and Viktor are two separate characters but now that I know he's a doll, I have a hard time viewing Lubov as a real person. Everything he does is influenced by the Dollhouse. And who knows what they've programmed into him?
"...what they do as they do that due to..." lol Sorry, that just made me laugh!
But yeah, I see what you're saying. If everyone is a product of their dna/upbringing/environment, can they help what they do? I could ramble on about how I think people are responsible for their own choices, etc. but I don't want to get into that.

Oh that clip was bad. lol But yeah- just soapy bad. There've been other actors who got their start in soaps and gone on to greatness, so I'm willing to give her a chance. Personally, I don't think there's much an actor can do with soap dialogue to make it good. Hell, I couldn't even watch Jensen Ackles when he was in Days of Our Lives and I love him.

They must imprint the inactive dolls with some basic stuff right? I would imagine just something to make them peaceful. Idk. They must have some remnants of their original personality I think. Idk. lol
hampir setahun yang lalu Cinders said…
First of all, I would like to thank debs for getting Once More With Feeling songs stuck in my head with this: "(sorry i never shut up i know feel free to scan my comments most of them consist of mainly lol and "i have a thoery" anyway)>"

:p

At least none of your theories consist of bunnies.

Secondly, I have a feeling that the dolls aren't wiped as blank as people think, particularly with Sierra's half smile when she saw Echo. I watched that scene several times over, and (especially judging by "Target" hallucinations), I'm beginning to think that they remember more when they're in the dollhouse than they do when they're imprinted. As if by receiving their "treatment" at the end of every mission, instead of wiping their memories, they are in fact bringing them all back.

Am I making sense?

And yes, fanfly-- a child's use of manipulation displays a second level Theory of Mind. With this comes the ability to understand others are different from you and have separate emotions that you can effect, the ability to teach, the ability to plan for the future, and the ability to empathize.
hampir setahun yang lalu amazondebs said…
monkey
lol there was a fair few do's in that sentence wasn't there :D

fair enough about not getting in to because i know me you and cinders will probably have a right old time debating it and other fans will go to another forum lol

true soap actors arn't normally able to do much so yeah i guess i'll give her another chance although i'm not quite sure what you mean that she has funny face :s lol

so cinders your sort of like saying that the inactive dolls are sort of like another imprint?

oh i have one more theory....ahem let me try that again,

i've got a theory adelle's superiors, are bunnies *crickets*
hampir setahun yang lalu amazondebs said…
okay completly random off topic none episodic train of thought here but hey this is a general forum, yes?

sooooooooooo okay could you technically live forever as a doll okay here me out for a second if our memories and such make our personalities (baring in mind if you don't believe in souls or that souls are attached to the body) then if you put your memories and there fore you in to someone else's brain would they then be you? if so you could put yourself in to someone's mind after you died and sort of almost live on forever....in theory
hampir setahun yang lalu fanfly said…
Ooooh an existential thought worthy of Joss Whedon! Idk, I guess if it was the complete you and it was programmed to physically/emotionally react exactly like you would, I guess you could go on, barring any complications. I wonder if someone who was dying of cancer would pay the Dollhouse to do that? But then, what would that person say to their friends and family? Would they be accepted in a different body? Maybe get plastic surgery?
hampir setahun yang lalu amazondebs said…
or maybe if it wouldn't be you living on technically just sort of like a clone you, you know with it not being your brain an all maybe a relative could do that if a loved one died...
hampir setahun yang lalu fanfly said…
This makes me think of something else- do you have to be blank in order to receive an imprint? Or could you retain your personality and someone else's at the same time? Probably not something you'd want to do, but I just wonder if it would be physically possible. And if it would just turn you in to a schizo or if you could control the different personalities....hmmmm...Alpha?
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hampir setahun yang lalu amazondebs said…
well they did say that reason he went all psycho was because he had retrained different memories and different parts of his personalities maybe one of the things he retained was from either his original life which is some how connected to echo's or from an inprint which dollhouse took of someone connected to echo....sorry i mean caroline...oh you know what i mean but props for the skitzo theory


another thing that's been slightly bugging on my mind latly, does anyone else feel that this shows going awful fast like the dollhouse are already aware of her going off mission and this mistakes and what not and we already know of alpha and everything and i am wondering how long this storyling will arc because i can't imagine another storyline with in the dollhouse bar the weekly missions and i'm just wondering how long joss plans his big arc for i mean obvisouly with buffy and firefly you can carry on every season with different baddies and arcs and such but how many different ones can you come up with, with dollhouse like the dolls retaining memories unless i dunno echo joined alpha and sierra started to...which you know just get ridiculous too many special people lol not that it worries me at all i mean even if it's short but good (i don't think you can call dollhouse sweet) then that'll be good or you know maybe joss is planning on slowing it down or maybe he does have another genius idea up his sleeve....ahem sorry once again i go on too much sorry
hampir setahun yang lalu fanfly said…
Yeah, I know what you mean- he does seem to be going fast- like he wants to get as much out before it gets canceled. :(
But I wonder if he'll slow down if the suits stop breathing down his neck.
But I also think he does have genius ideas just ready to fall out of his sleeves! lol
I'm thinking Echo will learn enough to hide what she's learned and act as a spy within the Dollhouse for Ballard? Idk. We'll just have to see how it goes.
hampir setahun yang lalu fanfly said…
HEADS UP: If you haven't watched the 1x04- best not read the following!




OK, so I was wrong....they CAN duplicate personalities. So I guess that a wipe isn't like murder, if they store every personality they make. But it's still a violation IMO- whether or not the wiped "person" remembers anything or not. People suppress traumatic experiences all the time, but that doesn't mean that they didn't happen. I think my issue with imprinting is that it's like playing god-even though I'm an atheist- that's the best phrase for how I feel about it- that I can come up with right now anyway. No one should have that kind of power.
hampir setahun yang lalu movygirl said…
Hear, Hear! Or in the words of admiral Odama:
So say we all!

P.S.Fanfly, I told you so! ;P
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hampir setahun yang lalu fanfly said…
big smile
lol You did, huh? ;PPPPP
hampir setahun yang lalu ineedcoffee said…
hmmm
say were is debs haven't seen her around lately?
hampir setahun yang lalu Saul_Mikoliunas said…
***SPOILERS UP TO END OF SEASON 1***

I wonder why Boyd took the job too
That is what I am wondering. Season 1 over and that is possibly the biggest mystery to me so far.
(well whedon fans anyways....maybe if we was on twilight...ooooo cheap shot, sorry)
Cheap shot!! I am a Twilight fan! (Although I unsunscribed from the spot so you can be seen in public with me again =P)
i am also in love with victor/luvbov his character is just sooo i dunno do you think luvbov really felt for paul or he was setting him up or did the dollhouse just program that in. also i know he's had the accent from the begining but i have to say i love it, although not quite sure weather it's russia or polish....i think it sounds more polish to me sort of how my counsin talks (he is actually polish he doesn't just randomly talk with a accent lol)
I agree! I think that because of Enver Gjokaj, Victor is now my favourite charcter. The fact that he had to learn two different on two different occassions overnight shows me what a good actor he is. By the way I loled at your cousin not just randomly talking like that =D I forgot you had polish family.
anyways i'm still not convinced that dichen will turn out to be a good actor
I wasn't, until Gray Hour. I think she played Taffy really well and I think she just gets better and better.
especially the shake of the head at the end when she noticed Dominic watching them
I wish we had referenced back to that at some point! I was so happy that we had that character development and then Sierra just seemed to be dialed down after that =(
Well, if this was the Twilight Spot there wouldn't be any real spoilers to worry about because there's no real story there- oops! cheap shot! ;DD
COME ON!! Too many cheap shots =D
Cinders!
You are a dollhouser? Where did you go? Did you stop watching? I havent seen you on here before!!
i've got a theory adelle's superiors, are bunnies *crickets*
Screw finding out about Boyd or Whiskey, I WANT TO SEE ADELLES SUPERIORS AS BUNNIES!!


sooooooooooo okay could you technically live forever as a doll okay here me out for a second if our memories and such make our personalities (baring in mind if you don't believe in souls or that souls are attached to the body) then if you put your memories and there fore you in to someone else's brain would they then be you? if so you could put yourself in to someone's mind after you died and sort of almost live on forever....in theory

OMIGOSH, YOU CALLED IT!! Im so proud =D You are definitely thought worthy of Joss Whedon! Ok that makes no sense but you understand the gist of what I was trying to get across!
say were is debs haven't seen her around lately?
Her computer is broken and she hasn't been able to come on =( I missss her!
hampir setahun yang lalu fanfly said…
smile
Thanks for clearing up the mysterious disappearance of amazondebs, Saul! I was a little worried about her. :)
hampir setahun yang lalu Saul_Mikoliunas said…
We were too but she left a message on Germany123's facebook explaining that her comp died =(