Rawak Article: No it Doesn't; Being a peminat Isn't a Chore (A Response Article)

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No it Doesn't; Being a peminat Isn't a Chore (A Response Article)

posted by zanhar1

Image by: Lumo55000 on tumblr

Okay so I was browsing the net and I found this lovely piece of work, that was published just two months ago. link
Apparently this is a 'student run' new site. So much for the plagiarism policy. Like at least give an exact link--as your site automatically generates for anyone who copies and pastes your work. But don't worry I already put that up bahagian, atas myself, out of respect. Anyhow I find it very funny how professionally set up this site is and yet they're utilizing my work without my permission and without even linking me to it. It's one thing to post my work (with credits) in appreciation of it behind my back and another to critique it behind my back. I'm not saying not to disagree with me at all, because really, I don't mind. What I am saying is, at least have the decency to link me to the critique so I have a chance to defend myself. That's my main issue with this article. The lack of professionalism is killing me and this site claims to be the site of a newspaper. "The Record and its staff encourage a respectful, engaging and informative conversation." Yeah, okay, sure lol. Where's the respect? With that in mind I am going to link this to the site so they can properly give feedback about their work being utilized. I mean I suppose I'm somewhat flattered that, that silly artikel drew enough attention to get a whole response artikel on another site, but still...it's the way the response was done behind my back that I'm not flattered by.

So what baffles me the most is that (what seems to be) a rather professional newspaper took an artikel of mine that wasn't even supposed to be professional in the slightest and utilized it. Legit, that artikel of mine was only there to get my opinion out there and encourage/welcome people into any fandom. To let people know that it's okay to not know everything about a certain medium. I don't get why people have to take a positive like that and try to push a negative.

With all of this in mind Imma type this artikel just how I typed the other one; without a degree of professional language because that's not what the first one was. Because again, most all of my opinion artikel-artikel are recreational things, things I type just because I want something to do.

The first point I'd like to address is the following "Sure, I might like something a lot, but I’m not going to consider myself a peminat right away. Why? Because I feel like I don’t know enough about what I’m trying to become a peminat of." Alright, that's cool. anda do you, but don't try to tell others how to feel atau make them feel unwelcome/unequal in the fandom. Just because anda don't feel comfortable considering yourself a peminat right away, doesn't mean other people can't. In my opinion it's perfectly fine to call yourself a peminat as soon as anda start to enjoy something because that's what being a peminat is.

sejak definition (taken from here; link)) "is a person who is enthusiastically devoted to something atau somebody, such as a band, a sports team, a genre, a book, a movie atau an entertainer. As long a person genuinely enjoys something and shows some enthusiasm, sejak definition they are a fan. Take out the enthusiasm and you're still a fan, you're just a casual fan. Someone who watches and enjoys the subject but isn't super crazy about it. And a causal peminat is still a real/true fan.

So yes, if anda don't feel right calling yourself a peminat (and I apply this to any reader not just the person who this artikel is a response to) then anda don't have to. But there are some people who feel comfortable doing so and it's perfectly valid to do so. Because even if anda don't know a lot about the thing anda just started to like, anda can still like and enjoy it. And that is a fan.

The other point that was bought up was the following; "Some “fans,”consider themselves bandwagoners. These individuals openly admit they are peminat-peminat of something because it is what’s popular at the time." sejak all means, this is a fair point. But these are not the people my artikel was addressing. For one, these people openly admitted they weren't true fans. My artikel aimed to uplift, meningkatkan people who genuinely Cinta the subject but were told they couldn't be a peminat because of xyz. Bandwagoners aren't real peminat-peminat they're bandwagoners. And they admit it.

Which leads to my seterusnya point; I'm under the impression that my artikel wasn't even read fully. Because the point was terribly missed. I read through all of the "Being a peminat Isn't Easy" artikel and not once was it mentioned that people were getting told they weren't real peminat-peminat for opinions regarding the medium they love. The entire point of my artikel was to dispute claims like "you're not a real peminat because anda like the antagonists better than the protagonists." I am a huge peminat of Winx Club; I've been a peminat for well over ten years now. I know my shit. And yet someone got off on calling me a 'fake fan' because I preferred one dub over the other. This is what my artikel was, in a sense, calling out. And the response artikel didn't address this at all. I feel as though they read my “Step one: enjoy/love/like the show, book, movie, and/or band. Good job, that’s it, you’re a true fan.” And just stopped. So sejak all means the artikel in response to mine isn't even a fair assessment of my original content. Considering how much of it was ignored. Considering the very core of it was ignored.

So the seterusnya thing bought up is the following; "You know, the people that when anda tunjuk them a cool new band, they don’t think much about them, but as soon as the band starts getting airtime on the radio, they claim to know every word to every song?" Isn't this a form of bandwagoning though? Since the band is getting air time they jump on?

anda know what, Imma defend these people. To be honest it did annoy me when Gangnam Style started playing and suddenly everyone was a Kpop fan. But
Everyone needs to start somewhere. And I think the above is a start of some sort. No, they shouldn't claim to know every line to every song right off the bat. But it's completely fair for the person to say they are a peminat of and like what they did hear. And from there the rest of the knowledge comes naturally. No one has to put in tedious research, why would they? Because eventually (especially with shows) the viewer starts to get used to the tunjuk and slowly he/she finds him/herself realizing that he/she can senarai off every member of the cast and who they play! Way back in 2011 I dived into the Once fandom; it was really disorienting because not only did I have to keep track of all the characters but I had to keep track of which fairy tail counterpart belonged to who. And I came into the fandom late. Luckily everyone was supportive and instead of saying I wasn't a real peminat they helped remind me of who was who. Soon enough--without even realizing it--I not only had the counterpart thing down, but also which cast member played who down. And I didn't do a speck of research, I just listened to my fellow peminat-peminat talk. I followed their conversations, and it came naturally.

So sejak all means, it really is that easy!

That said, onto the seterusnya point; "There has to be something lebih to it than just enjoyment."

I suppose this is just a matter of opinion. Because I strongly disagree. Being a peminat is all about enjoying something. In fact I'm inclined to point anda back to the very definition of the word fan. It says nothing about research/knowledge and everything about enjoyment.

"In order to be a peminat of something, anda need to have done your homework on it." No. No, no, no. Being a peminat should not require homework! That's what school is for. Sure if it's something anda enjoy it shouldn't be a hassle. sejak all means when I got into Avatar I wanted to know everything I could about my kegemaran character, Azula. But what about the people who just want to watch the show? That's it, they like/love the tunjuk but they really don't want to part-take in the fandom atau anything. Are anda saying that these people don't actually like the show? That they're not fans?

I'd like to argue that (again especially in the case of shows & books) the information is all and research anda need lies in the content of the show/book. If it doesn't than the penulis isn't doing his/her job.

And just how much do anda need to know? If knowledge is what defines what it takes to be a peminat then who gets to set that bar? Some people would say that to be a real peminat anda have to know the names of all the characters, the seterusnya guy will step it up and demand that anda know all of the characters and the actors who play them. The person will say that anda have to know all of that and the names of all the episodes. So whose standard of how much knowledge anda need to be a peminat are we going by? Because that, my friends, is subjective too. And there's a simple solution to this problem; let the individual him atau herself decide when he atau she is a peminat of something. Gauge whether atau not someone is a peminat of something sejak how much they like the show/book/band/etc.

"But if anda want to be considered a fan, anda should be reading, watching, attending, listening, and/or participating in whatever your interest is as much as possible." Now this is something I can agree with. Because that's all it takes; watching thew show, listening to the music, atau whatever. Just making time for watching/listening to/etc. the subject shows that you're a fan. Where I differ is that I don't think that there is a such thing as a 'lazy, lackluster' fan, just a casual fan. And a casual peminat is still a real fan.

Long story short, I just don't understand why people are so keen on making watching shows, Membaca books, listening to music, and generally enjoying something such a chore. It really doesn't have to be. Isn't the point of shows/books/music to give people a release. To give people an escape. A way to relax. And it's pretty hard to relax and get invested in a tunjuk when people are telling you, anda have to hardcore know everything about it. atau when people are playing bouncer at the door of the fanclubs. Just welcome people in with open arms and tunjuk them the works of the fandom! Like Jesus Christ.

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Image found here; http://teespring.com/stores/fandom-merch-2

suck_toad, Rose-247 and 10 others like this

Kragfan1910 I agree with you. I actually left a comment on the record's article. I hope you don't mind, I linked them to this article here.

zanhar1 ^ It's cool. I like them to it myself...not sure if the comment went though though.

zanhar1 Apparently all comments there have to await moderation though. So basically if they want to censor us they can.

Kragfan1910 Sure, but if they censor me, they're the ones loosing out. I commented to give the author a greater perspective, and if he doesn't want that, then it's his loss.

zanhar1 ^ xP I didn't I just posted a salty link to my article. But eh as you said, their loss.

audreygrace412 Wow... Absolutely wonderful article! This was a good read, thank you for sharing it! If you don't mind/like involved responses then here is one for you. If not, feel free to ignore it. :) " What I am saying is, at least have the decency to link me to the critique so I have a chance to defend myself." ^ Totally agreed! They went so far as to name you twice and refer to your article then they should link it so at least the readers have full context. Also, you must have really made an impact for them to write an article about it 8 full months later! Good job! "So what baffles me the most is that (what seems to be) a rather professional newspaper took an article of mine that wasn't even supposed to be professional in the slightest and utilized it." ^ Haha, right?! As soon as I read your name "zanhar1" as a source in the paper, I was shocked. I mean no disrespect to you or your opinions, I rather enjoy reading them, but I'm shocked a 'newspaper' would be using a [i]screen name on a fan site as a source to rebut.[/i] To me, it shows that they never reached out to you before deciding to write about your opinion and aren't too professional, as you pointed out. "By definition (taken from here; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_(person)) "is a person who is enthusiastically devoted to something or somebody, such as a band, a sports team, a genre, a book, a movie or an entertainer." ^ I would like to add to your point as well that enthusiastic doesn't necessarily mean obsessed. After reading the article that you are responding to, it sounded to me like: 1. They claimed you had to be [i]extensively knowledgeable, not necessarily 'enthusiastic' or excited,[/i] about a subject to be a fan of it but described a very obsessive process which most people - especially working people - just don't have the time for. 2. They mentioned a "Fan/Trend-Follower Spectrum" which essentially says there are different levels of being a fan yet then they turned around and said you had to be at the top of that spectrum in order to be considered a fan. That seemed totally contradictory to me. "The entire point of my article was to dispute claims like "you're not a real fan because you like the antagonists better than the protagonists."" ^ I would love to read your original article that started this back and forth. It seems to me, and please tell me if I am correct or not, that you were essentially arguing that differences of opinions doesn't equal true fan or not? "But Everyone needs to start somewhere. And I think the above is a start of some sort. No, they shouldn't claim to know every line to every song right off the bat. But it's completely fair for the person to say they are a fan of and like what they did hear." ^ This is an excellent point. I think the author of the Record article forgot their spectrum point and are trying to compare 'purists fans' with introductory fans, if that makes sense. It's a weird phenomenon that certain people believe something is only cool if it's still a minority/underground type trend (not talking about race but actual mathematical population minority) or if everyone is a "die hard" fan. "Way back in 2011 I dived into the Once fandom; it was really disorienting because not only did I have to keep track of all the characters but I had to keep track of which fairy tail counterpart belonged to who. And I came into the fandom late." ^ What a coincidence! I started watching late in 2013(?) during Season 3 and had to catch up but also was lucky in finding many considerate and open-minded, happy fans to discuss it all with. ""There has to be something more to it than just enjoyment." "I suppose this is just a matter of opinion. Because I strongly disagree. Being a fan is all about enjoying something. In fact I'm inclined to point you back to the very definition of the word fan. It says nothing about research/knowledge and everything about enjoyment." ^ Spot on. Your point here is worth applause to me. "But what about the people who just want to watch the show? That's it, they like/love the show but they really don't want to part-take in the fandom or anything. Are you saying that these people don't actually like the show? That they're not fans?" ^ I don't mean to stereotype or offend anyone and I mean this as a joke but that article sounded more like an audition to be a Trekkie or something. "Long story short, I just don't understand why people are so keen on making watching shows, reading books, listening to music, and generally enjoying something such a chore. It really doesn't have to be. Isn't the point of shows/books/music to give people a release. To give people an escape." ^ Honestly, this is the libertarian in me but I think it is done on purpose to be a chore to make the public escape reality. If you are that invested in a TV show or band, you're less focused on what's going on around you, primarily politically.

Riku114 I would comment to everything I saw but that would take too logn and Im busy ish so Ill just drop the few things that spoke to me. Firstly to note, I agree with you throughout this article. [i] "But if you want to be considered a fan, you should be reading, watching, attending, listening, and/or participating in whatever your interest is as much as possible." [/i] That I agree with what you said as well, however I want to point out the connotation of this person's wording. With the whole "But if you want to be considered a fan" makes it sound like you HAVE to be doing this and working your ass off all the time to keep up with it. Which I am not certain if that is what they were trying to say, however I think as long as you are putting some kind of effort to getting whatever part of what you like done thats cool. That and the "as much as possible" kind of ignores those people that might like a book but not want to watch the movie or might like a movie but not want to read the book and all. But I dunno. I mgiht be taking it out of context however I just felt the need to make commentary on that as the line bothered me a bit. But yeah. Preach Zanhar XD The whole thing about the names and all actually really speaks to me tbh. Cause particularly with me getting a bit more into KPop lately, learning names has been quite the challenge however I wouldnt say Im not a fan. Like Block B I only know like... one name 100% and two others that Im pretty sure I could point out accurately, but I definately wouldnt stand for someone rejecting me the title of a casual fan and all. And like wise with BTS when I was getting into it, I spent like... a month unsure of half the members names yet I dont think that, especially being one month into it, that it would be fair to call me not a real fan of BTS just cause I struggled with the names and if you fast forward like 4 or 5 months, Im sure anyone who bothered to look would even bother calling me "Not a Real Fan" cause at one point of time I didnt know the names. So that whole "You need to start somewhere" was a REALLY good point I liked that you made.

SilentForce Congratulations zanhar1,you're not only famous on fanpop but also outside of it.This is a big victory for the Zanarchy XD.Anyways,I just read that article and had to laugh hard at it.The person who wrote it is acting like the term fan is some kind of honorable status that only a few people are worthy to hold,give me a break.I'm quite surprised that this person didn't mention that in order to be a true fan of something you also need to worship the writer/singer/actor/player etc as you one and only God*rolls eyes*.As long as you enjoy/like/love something than you're technically a fan of it,its as simple as that.

zanhar1 @Audrey Thank you ^_^ I don't mind at all, I'm always down for a discussion. And I'm finally done with finals! So I can hopefully do more replying. I mean this too, their readers can't even judge my article fairly because they only have that small (totally off point) snippet of my work. xP Thanks, I like to think that, that's why it was discovered lol. It's cool, I myself am kind of puzzled. Like why my work? It wasn't [i]that[/i] special. It definitely wan't scholarly in the slightest. But okay, whatever. Like you said, "why would a newspaper be using a screen name on a fan site as a source to rebut?" Fanpop isn't even a popular social networking sight. They completely didn't even try. Not a message, not a wall post, nothing. Tbh the fact that there was no link or anything almost makes me think that they didn't want me to find it. That it was one of those "lol she'll never find this" kind of things. Well unfortunately for them I'm an egotistical bastard who likes to search my screen name when I get bored. Well, it's more or less to see if anyone here on fanpop mentioned me so I could respond. [i] They claimed you had to be extensively knowledgeable, not necessarily 'enthusiastic' or excited, about a subject to be a fan of it but described a very obsessive process which most people - especially working people - just don't have the time for.[/i] Omg yes, that's another thing. Like I got into Fairy Tail a while back but I just haven't had time for it. TBH I haven't even been able to enjoy Once like I used to because of how busy I am. People who are in college and/or have a job can't devote all of their time to shows. It's illogical. I obsess over Once, Avatar TLA, and Harry Potter--but (after watching/reading new content) the fan-girling gets put on a back burner until I have more time. Once upon a time I had time to write a fic a night. I just don't have that kind of time anymore, and other people probably feel the same. It seems like the author from 'The Record' didn't even consider that. [i]They mentioned a "Fan/Trend-Follower Spectrum" which essentially says there are different levels of being a fan yet then they turned around and said you had to be at the top of that spectrum in order to be considered a fan. That seemed totally contradictory to me.[/i] Yeah I was a bit confused by that--like I didn't know what to make of it. Like there's this hierarchy of fanhood but to even be considered a fan you have to be at the top of the hierarchy? Or else you're a 'lackluster fan'? What now? [i]you were essentially arguing that differences of opinions doesn't equal true fan or not?[/i] That's exactly the point of the first article. You didn't even read it and you grasped the point! And this guy/gal typed an entire article disputing it, and completely missed the point. Here's the original article; http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/random/articles/247350/title/how-true-fan-something Thank you again. Dude I don't even know why the spectrum was even bought up if they were just going to say you needed to be at the top of it to be a real fan. I just don't get why there is so much hostility in a sense towards newbies. It's like you should be excited that someone else is joining the fandom! It's someone else to talk to! I don't get that either. I don't get why people hate on things just because they are popular--how about actually watching the thing and then deciding if you like it or not. Oh gosh, that must have been a pain lol, keeping track of everyone that late in the game. xP You're lucky though fanpop's Once fandom was pretty wild back in seasons 1 & 2. People are pretty nice (now) here on fanpop though, they kind of help you gist of the show. I just avoid tumblr's Once fandom like the plague--it's so toxic. And another thank you. ^_^ Exactly. I mean one can go into a show and analyze it a lot (I like to do that). But a viewer doesn't have to in order to be a fan. They can just like it for enjoyment. For fun.

zanhar1 @Riku That's fine by me. :P I've been rather busy as well so I understand completely. I was pondering not making this article because "ain't nobody got time for that" but then I made time, because I always have time to be salty when I wanna be. xP [i]With the whole "But if you want to be considered a fan" makes it sound like you HAVE to be doing this and working your ass off all the time to keep up with it. Which I am not certain if that is what they were trying to say, however I think as long as you are putting some kind of effort to getting whatever part of what you like done thats cool.[/i] I can agree with that, I mean it could never hurt to spend some time chatting about the thing you're a fan of. But if you don't have the time or care to do so it's fine. Someone can still be a fan and enjoy whatever it is that they like on their own. [i]That and the "as much as possible" kind of ignores those people that might like a book but not want to watch the movie or might like a movie but not want to read the book and all.[/i] Or the people who like the first seasons of a show but don't like the last few. That kind of thing. In general the article neglects those who like the show enough to be a fan but not enough to invest heaps of time into it. [i]But yeah. Preach Zanhar XD The whole thing about the names and all actually really speaks to me tbh. Cause particularly with me getting a bit more into KPop lately, learning names has been quite the challenge however I wouldnt say Im not a fan.[/i] Thank you! Same though. Holy heck, I love SNSD and I love SuJu, but there are so many members it takes time to learn who is who and learn how each person's vocals sound. I've been an SNSD fan for a few years now and I still can only point out (with 100% accuracy) a few of the girls; Jessica, Yuri, & Yoona. Sometimes Sunny and Tiffany. With SuJu I can point out Heechul lol, because he's my favorite. Like I love SuJu's songs but I can't keep track of everyone! But, like you, I know enough of their songs and album names to not just be a 'not a real fan'. Thank you once more. Yeah, that article just didn't consider new fans either. Just because you're a new fan doesn't mean you aren't a true fan. That is now the slogan of this article. @Silent *Bows* Why thank you, I try my best. But not really because the initial article was basically just me complaining about stuff again. I'm glad my whining is eye-catching. If only my complaints about math could gain this much traction. The Zanarchy is extending it's territory and will soon be unstoppable. [i]like the term fan is some kind of honorable status that only a few people are worthy to hold.[/i] For real though! Being a fan of something isn't even an accomplishment of any sort. It is literally just a fancy way of saying 'I like a thing'. There's no badge for it. [i] you also need to worship the writer/singer/actor/player etc as you one and only God[/i] The 'Cullenists' (Twilight Cullen family fans) come to mind there. But yeah as long as you like, love, and enjoy something, that's enough to be a fan.

SilentForce @zanhar1 I honestly think that it would be super hilarious if this person would also take you"Rules of Shipping"article serious XD.I could imagine him taking all you words out of context and say stuff like"Articles like this are the reasons why fandoms have obsessive shippers that freak out if a person doesn't ship the same ship.Obsessive fans like this are what turns people away from a fandom that they would otherwise like.So no these people don't need to be told that they can ship everything that they want":P.

zanhar1 Oh dear God, no lol. If that one gets taken seriously I'm checking out of the internet for a while. No one should ever take that seriously--unless you are me or your are like me and ship everything. Granted I have my notp but I seriously ship most everything; even the crackiest shiz.

SilentForce it still would be funny if they would take it seriously. "No one should ever take that seriously--unless you are me or your are like me and ship everything." I wouldn't say that I absolutely ship everything but I sure have lots of shippings lol.The only kind of ships that I don't ship are the main hero+main villain ships that seem to be pretty popular.

zanhar1 I usually just stay away from 'good girl/bad boy' ugg.

audreygrace412 I'm glad you're done with your finals, congratulations! Thank you for posting a link to your original article! After reading it, it seems that you were making a lot of legitimate points about subjectiveness and perhaps people taking some of these terms too far. One thing I think is very obvious is that you are right that I don't think that 'author' ever actually read your piece beyond that first line. That, or perhaps they were just offended at how many people agreed with you so decided not to show respect to your entire article. "Fanpop isn't even a popular social networking sight." Perhaps they did a google search about "true fans" and that is how they found your article. The fact that they never linked your work is what leads me to believe they are completely unprofessional. It's also weird that a school newspaper would use something from a random site like that which has nothing to do with the school, at least in my opinion. "People who are in college and/or have a job can't devote all of their time to shows. It's illogical." And some people just don't ever devote themselves to stuff like that. To me, the author was trying to create an elitism in 'fan-ning', if you will. I think their using of the fan spectrum just showed their disconnection from reality and their own hypocrisy. "Dude I don't even know why the spectrum was even bought up if they were just going to say you needed to be at the top of it to be a real fan. I just don't get why there is so much hostility in a sense towards newbies." ^ Like I said, I think it's a weird elitist obsession. It's like those people who say we liked _this band_ before _this album_ so we're [i]real fans[/i]. They want excessive specificity like "I'm a fan of the __era__ of __subject__" or something and that's way too complicated. You increase someone's ratings by watching or buy their products, etc. then you're a fan in my eyes. "It's like you should be excited that someone else is joining the fandom! It's someone else to talk to!" ^ Agreed! And make suggestions if you care so much like "hey, now that you know you like __, I think you should check out their ___" or whatever. It may seem silly but I personally believe that tons of little attitudes like this really make a society much more divisive than it needs to be. It'd be different if it were all done in good sport but it seems more malicious to me, though I don't pretend to be any expert on the subject and completely open to corrections. Personally, I dislike the waiting game between weeks and even more so between seasons so it was kind of nice for me to watch almost 2 1/2 seasons straight. It gets so hard to keep the details on track after a long time, I start to forget especially when inconsistencies occur and murky it up. I haven't had many discussions on the Once fanpop site but so far it seems positive and somewhat diverse in opinions. No thanks needed, you're welcome. :)

LuciaPecas o.o

zanhar1 No problem. Yeah, that was pretty much the main point that was entirely missed by the other person. [i]One thing I think is very obvious is that you are right that I don't think that 'author' ever actually read your piece beyond that first line.[/i] If the person did read it completely than he or she really did misunderstand the whole thing. [i]That, or perhaps they were just offended at how many people agreed with you so decided not to show respect to your entire article.[/i] I don't really get why that would offend this person but whatever. [i]The fact that they never linked your work is what leads me to believe they are completely unprofessional.[/i] Pretty much though. Best part is they are hypocrites too; they have it set so if you copy parts of their article it provides a link to the original content automatically. [i]It's also weird that a school newspaper would use something from a random site like that which has nothing to do with the school, at least in my opinion. [/i] Same though. "People who are in college and/or have a job can't devote all of their time to shows. It's illogical." And some people just don't ever devote themselves to stuff like that. To me, the author was trying to create an elitism in 'fan-ning', if you will. [i]I think their using of the fan spectrum just showed their disconnection from reality and their own hypocrisy.[/i] I know right. [i]Like I said, I think it's a weird elitist obsession. It's like those people who say we liked _this band_ before _this album_ so we're real fans.[/i] That always annoyed the hell out of me like just because you 'heard something before it was cool' doesn't mean that you are a bigger fan than anyone else. [i]You increase someone's ratings by watching or buy their products, etc. then you're a fan in my eyes.[/i] I also agree here as well. [i]Agreed! And make suggestions if you care so much like "hey, now that you know you like __, I think you should check out their ___" or whatever.[/i] Exactly, make if you're gonna be an elitist at least be a useful elitist lol and give the person some pointers. [i]It'd be different if it were all done in good sport but it seems more malicious to me[/i] 90% of it comes off as vicious and not sports like to me. [i]Though I don't pretend to be any expert on the subject and completely open to corrections. [/i] I'm also open to corrections so long as they are made in a kind and respectful manner. Personally, I dislike the waiting game between weeks and even more so between seasons so it was kind of nice for me to watch almost 2 1/2 seasons straight. It gets so hard to keep the details on track after a long time, I start to forget especially when inconsistencies occur and murky it up. I haven't had many discussions on the Once fanpop site but so far it seems positive and somewhat diverse in opinions.